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About the Author
J. P. Moreland, is an American philosopher, theologian, and Christian apologist. He currently serves as a Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology at Biola University in La Mirada, California. He is the author of thirteen books.Kai Nielsen is professor emeritus of philosophy at the University of Calgary and the author of thirty-two books and more than four hundred articles. His works include Atheism and Philosophy, Does God Exist? (with J. P. Moreland), Ethics without God, Exploitation, Globalization and Justice, Naturalism and Religion, Naturalism without Foundations, and Why Be Moral?
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Product details
Paperback: 320 pages
Publisher: Prometheus Books; 0003rd edition (April 1, 1993)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0879758236
ISBN-13: 978-0879758233
Product Dimensions:
6 x 0.7 x 9 inches
Shipping Weight: 1 pounds (View shipping rates and policies)
Average Customer Review:
3.9 out of 5 stars
18 customer reviews
Amazon Best Sellers Rank:
#1,343,384 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
You know something is terribly wrong when everyone who comments on a debate -- including the debaters themselves, subsequently -- think the debate sucked. It is obvious why to almost everyone: theist and atheist alike. The two men, with J.P. Moreland representing the Christian side and Kai Nielsen representing the atheistic side, couldn't be more dissimilar in terms of both their intellectual priorities and debating styles. The result of this is that the two men completely talk past one-another. As one of the theistic commentators noted (Craig), one of the most fundamental elements of a good debate, clash, or the head-to-head, back-and-forth treatment of various common points, is entirely missing from this. It almost reads like someone spliced together arguments from entirely different debates. I would also agree with Craig that this is largely Nielsen's fault: he put all of his eggs in one basket, and refused to address any of the points raised by Moreland. He talks, almost with pride, about how he just doesn't give a hoot about the historical Christian proofs of Jesus Christ's resurrection. Now, I think almost all of Moreland's arguments, from his arcane cosmological argument to his statistical arguments to his scientific arguments (interesting how theists are quick to invoke scientific theories which support their position even as they attack other theories which are at least as well-established by evidence), are poor stuff. However, he at least supplies Nielsen with an ample amount of material to cover in their debate. Nielsen refuses to engage Moreland, however, and keeps on his incoherency argument, which, while I think essentially valid, is poorly presented by him. As if this wasn't bad enough, I also share Moreland's irritation with Nielsen's thoroughly dismissive attitude toward science. No, scientific models will never attain the level of certainty found in logical or mathematical proofs, but they are still the best we have to work with and, indeed, given the wide-range of evidence for, say, the big bang theory, which is the theory invoked by Moreland, it is unimaginable that this theory is flat out wrong. In all likelihood as we learn more it'll be revised to incorporate new discoveries, but given the power and likely permanence of the theory, it is intellectual irresponsible to dismiss it out of hand as Nielsen does here. Nielsen comes off as an arrogant and thoroughly obnoxious intellectual lightweight who has refused to do his homework.Other contributions are better. Namely, Keith Parsons and Dallas Willard. Willard presents impressive philosophical arguments in favor of supernaturalism, and completely wipes the floor of Craig and Moreland, who rely on poor scientific and metaphysical arguments. Parsons takes on Moreland's points head-first, pointing out hidden assumptions and bad premises in his opponent's arguments. He is also scientifically literate, and devastates Moreland's argument concerning abiogenesis (which is really Fred Hoyle's argument). Flew's contribution isn't terrible, but it left me cold. It is, however, superior to Craig's contribution.I give this book two stars for some decent commentary by Parsons and Willard, but I won't suggest purchasing this book just for their pieces, since their contributions make up a very small proportion of the total page-space employed. Otherwise, this book stinks, because the debate stunk.
I should preface this by saying that I am, in fact, a theist.That said, I thought that the *theist* position was very poorly represented. Moreland and Craig's arguments were simply bad philosophy. There was the occasional good point here and there, but on the whole, there were so many holes that even I, an amateur, could have picked them out. Fortunately, Neilsen did an excellent job of riping their arguments to shreds. I found this very intellectually interesting, as it this exchange really illustrated the common standards of a good philosophical argument.Flew and Parson's arguments were also not so great, but still better than Moreland's. Fortunately, Willard's piece (one of the theists) was simply excellent. He too pointed out the numerous issues with Moreland's argument, and even Neilsen complemented him on his argument. In fact, Neilen commented that a debate between he and Willard would have been far more fruitful, and I wholeheartedly agree. (I would likely not hesitate to give such a work a 5-star rating, assuming they found some better arguers than Moreland and Craig to round out the work.)In general, I do recommend reading this book, because it's useful to see how one should *not* argue, and what does make a good argument. (Of course, a sophisticated philosopher may find this all very tedious, in which case they should probably simply read the individual works of Neilsen and Willard.) In my opinion, the quality of Neilsen and Willard's arguments do make up for the rest of the arguments. Craig's arguments are interesting, though, in my opinion, untenable.On the whole, I'm surprised to see that other reviewers thought that the theists won--I thought the atheists won! On the theist side, there was only one philosopher worth his salt, while all the atheists were generally quite good. (Though, I should say, I was not very impressed with Flew's arguments, as presented here. I'm not familiar with his other work, which I assume is much better, given his esteemed status in the philosophical community.) I was also very intellectually disappointed in Moreland and Craig, especially because I myself am a theist. They are very clearly allowing their beliefs to cloud their arguments, and they seem blind to the many fallacies they are promulgating. In fact, they give theist philosophers a bad name. (Without Willard's piece, in fact, I would simply not have recommended this work.)So, in conclusion, I think this is a good work, but could have been much better.
This book is a written version of the debate between J.P. Moreland and Kia Nielsen. Both men are well known in their respective fields. Moreland a Christian theist and Nielsen an Atheist, "duke it out" and try to convince us if there is or is not a God. Even though I like J.P. Moreland, and he clearly wins the debate, he isn't at his top form. Further, Nielsen is sloppy and presents an old and already disgarded argument.The strength of this book are the contributors: Lane Craig and Willard (Christians) and Flew and Parsons (Atheists) right good strong rebuttals. They all write their position with dynamic passion. I'm partial to William Lane Craig in this book, but must admit that all the contributers did a fine job and therefore, make this book a must read.
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